Anonymous Commenter's Questions

I received the following comments on the blog today:

So how is the coffee shop going? My fiancee is starting one soon and your blog has been VERY helpful to us! We would like to know what your buildout cost was, and what your utilities are (not in $ but in kilowatts.)

We'd also love a synopsis of your experience - the amount of time each phase took - the amount of time you expected each phase to take - whether you would do it again, knowing what you know now - what you would have done differently - different equipment you would have purchased, if any. Thanks!


I don't have time to go back and research different Phases in detail, but here are some basic, high level answers:

1. Yes, we would do it all over again. It is very rewarding (personal growth, not financially, yet) and educational...

2. My buildout cost will not be helpful to you, unfortunately. I am a Construction Manager by trade, and I am an experienced woodworker. My friend Ryan is a General Contractor and he was looking for some projects to do to get his name out there (translates to FREE, except I bought him a new Canon DSLR)... Ryan and I (and his small crew) did all of the demo work, framed all walls, installed all of the flooring, did all of the concrete work, built the cabinets, book cases, retail shelves, pastry case, completed all of the painting, built the stock room shelves, etc. We hired out the plumbing, electrical, drywall and ceiling grid, and countertops.

Prior to this project, Tracy and I were looking at building a new commercial building and having a 1600 sq ft coffee shop there. The rough quote for design/build on the coffee shop fit and finish was $150,000. I have not broken construction costs out from our total start up budget, but we did 2000 square feet for approximately $65,000 (just guessing- this is for construction only, not equipment). A quick comparison would be $94 per square foot on the design/build, and our project was $33 per square foot. Keep in mind, though, we built a very nice shop. Most shops are not nearly as nice (custom wood work using Padauk and Maple, tile and hardwood flooring throughout, recessed lighting and custom fixtures instead of flourescent, etc, etc). The $94 per square foot was not for high end stuff like we did.

3. We bought some used equipment and some new equipment. I had a blog post previously about the pros and cons of going new or used. Overall, I recommend used. Go back through my blog and find that post. I think it will be very helpful.

4. Our utilities are about $450/month in the Winter, and about $675/month in the summer with AC running. I'd have to look at the electric bills to determine KW usage.

5. Expect everything to take longer than expected. If you have to go through Regional Building Department, there will be delays. They may also require you to have formal architect stamped plans and engineer stamps on your plumbing and electrical, etc... We spent $5700 or so on an architect, several thousand on mechanical and electrical engineering, $500 or so for energy loss calculations for mechanical systems, etc. The city required us to have a grease trap, and that was an enormous fight. They asked for a $45,000 system, including a subgrade interceptor under the parking lot outside. After months of fighting and hiring professionals (engineers) to illustrate our side, we ended up calling a truce and met in the middle of what was actually needed. The final deal was that we had to put in a trap that cost $2000 instead of $350 (the cheaper version is what we actually needed by engineer's calculations), that we have to document weekly inspections and cleanings of the grease trap, and that we are prohibited from ever installing a garbage disposal or dishwasher/sanitizer. They are very serious about the documentation, which I have to keep up to date in case of surprise inspections by the Wastewater division of CS Utilities. This grease trap deal was a nightmare and cost us a couple extra thousand dollars by the time you count installation, concrete work, steel grating over the top of it, cost of the unit, etc. You will surely have one or more rediculous items to contend with, and if you don't comply, you don't get to open your shop...

6. Contractors don't care about you or your schedule. You are a one time customer. If they have other customers that give them frequent work, they will drop you like a bad case of stomach flu in order to keep their consistent customers happy. You can scream, complain, beg, plead, threaten to sue, etc and nothing will have an effect. They will work on your shop when and if it is convenient for them. You can get around this by having a formal contract, with schedule included, and a clause for liquidated damages if they are late. However, you will owe them more money if anything outside of their control holds them up! Yes, if another contractor gets in their way, damages their work, etc they will charge you for liquidated damages as well. A savvy contractor will figure out how to double their price with change orders if you have a contract like this. You don't want to go that route unless you are a Construction Manager by trade and can keep things on track, and control EVERYTHING. If not, you are better off putting up with their lack of attention to your project and having some construction delays...